Michela Arricale: Ocalan will play a fundamental role to unite the whole region

2025-01-20 11:47:58


	 

	 

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	ANKARA- Lawyer Michela Arricale said that Turkey continues its bombardment of Syria, making a distinction between ‘good Kurds and bad Kurds’ while promoting opening policies. Michela Arricale said: ‘I believe that Mr Öcalan and the Kurdish people will play a fundamental role in unifying or pacifying not only Turkey but the whole region. I hope that in the future we can see Mr Öcalan among the people’.

	 

	The Peoples' Equality and Democracy Party (DEM Party) Imrali Delegation Pervin Buldan and Sırrı Süreyya Önder made the first political contact with PKK Leader Abdullah Öcalan, who is held in isolation in İmralı on 28 December. Following this political contact, 7 key messages from Abdullah Öcalan were on the world's agenda and the international public opinion took the good news from Abdullah Öcalan with hope. Besides, the importance of his ideas, which will shape both the Middle East politics and the world, continues to be emphasised. 

	 

	Michela Arricale, Co-Chair of the Italian Centre for Research and Development for Democracy and the International Legal Intervention Group, who was part of the international isolation delegation, spoke about the talks with PKK Leader Abdullah Öcalan.

	 

	
		 “This initiative is a good thing, but it is a small step on a fine line. We have to go further.  So much so that when a political step is not legal, it is very difficult to handle the situation. In the end, no matter what happens, we are happy, we are very happy that Mr Öcalan was met and we heard from him.”


	 

	*PKK Leader Abdullah Öcalan has been kept under aggravated isolation for years. In October, he met with his nephew Ömer Öcalan for the first time in 43 months and one of his first messages was ‘isolation continues’? What do you think about this?

	 

	Yes, the meeting with his nephew was a first and in this meeting he talks about the absolute isolation. This is true because we remember the times when Mr Öcalan repeatedly said that he wanted to meet with his lawyers.It was not possible for him to meet with his nephew and of course it was a great thing that this meeting took place, but when you look at it, is it enough, no it is not.  It is not enough because the news that came after the meeting was that Mr Öcalan had been given another six months of disciplinary punishment. In other words, he would not be able to meet with his lawyers, so this initiative is a good thing, but it is a small step on a fine line. We have to go further.  This step is obviously a political initiative, not a legal one, because only politicians are allowed to meet with him. In fact, when a political step is not legal, it is very difficult to deal with the situation because it is not about the legal rights that Mr Öcalan has or the rights that the Kurdish people should have, but rather it is an agreement, an agreement between two parties. So we have to be aware of what is going on and focus on the developments at the next meeting.  Let me remember, and correct me if I am wrong, Mr Öcalan stated in the second meeting, ‘Erdoğan and Bahçeli's new paradigm.’ This is another important point for me, this opening is a good thing, but it is a small step on a fine line. We have to go further.  This step is obviously a political initiative, not a legal one, because only politicians are allowed to meet with him. 

	 

	So when a political step is not legal, it is very difficult to handle the situation, so I think we also need to look at the internal political discussions because Erdoğan has something he needs, something he wants to get from the DEM Party.

	 

	Initiative on one side and Syrian attacks on the other

	 

	In particular, this is the second phase of Erdoğan's last term in office and he probably wants to change the Constitution and move on again. In other words, we do not know clearly what this opening means, we are asking this question. If we can clarify this point, we can make some clear analyses. In the end, no matter what happens, we are happy, very happy that Mr Öcalan was interviewed, we heard from him, we learnt that he is alive and in good health. This is good news for us. But we have to wait to see what will happen in the future. We have to wait to see what will happen because on the one hand there is the opening with Mr Öcalan and the Kurds in Turkey, but on the other hand there is the bombing of the Kurds in Syria and the narratives about them. I read Mr Erdoğan's newspaper, Sabah, almost every day, and I follow the statements of the PKK and many other things related to the Kurdish question, but there is a strange narrative that there is a division between ‘good Kurds and bad Kurds’. I think it certainly looks like that. They are taking a lot of people, including Barzani and other Iraqi Kurds. So it's strange and there are many interesting situations. 

	 

	
		"Turkey is trying to develop its power from east to west. But in order to sustain this step, it needs a united Turkey, a strong Turkey. Having a strong Turkey has to unite everyone. I think this is why the Kurdish issue is now back on the table."


	 

	*While the war in the Middle East and the attacks against Rojava are obvious, the Turkish state and Erdoğan found the solution in meeting with Abdullah Öcalan. Why do you think this meeting was held now? Why is Öcalan important in the Middle East issue?

	 

	We know that Mr Öcalan can play a fundamental role in the democratic solution, in the political solution of the whole region, and especially now. I think Erdogan needs a united Turkey on the one hand because he wants to play a new role in the region. He wants to change from a regional actor to an international actor, because we know that Turkey is in favour of the Assad regime leaving. We think this is supported by Turkey. Turkey has realised its dream of 2011. Every European official and foreign minister started negotiations with Erdogan on the future of Syria. Of course, there is also its strategic secret plan to move eastwards from the Caucasus after the Nagorno-Karabakh war. Turkey is trying to develop its power from east to west. But in order to sustain this step it needs a united Turkey, a strong Turkey. Having a strong Turkey has to unite everyone. I think this is why he has now started to put the Kurdish problem on the table again.This is of course one aspect. It is an internal issue, because it is strange that Bahçeli initiated the discussions. Why, because on the other side, the national nationalists are trying to lead the process by voicing these issues in order to put the Kurdish problem on a political path.  In other words, he wants to block the opposition on this path, he wants to tell them ‘no, don't worry. I will solve the Kurdish problem'. They are trying to prevent the work and this attitude is also linked to the fact that we have repeatedly asked Turkey to change some laws. Turkey has to put forward what it has to do in order not to be sidelined in its political guidance. 

	 

	Erdogan bombs Syria every day, every day, and he has never stopped

	 

	Of course, it is interesting that we do not know what they think. Although we are happy with the step taken, we do not know what demands they make from the interlocutor for a solution. The only thing that seems to be reflected is the call for the PKK to lay down its arms, but we are not so sure whether this is the only thing they want. As I said, there is an attempt to divide the Kurdish people into good Kurds and bad Kurds. The Syrian Kurds, the refugee Kurds are bad, but the ones who are in Turkey and who will side with their government and walk this path are good. Again, those who want to take a political stance and do not agree will be bad Kurds. Right now, for example, I am really worried and afraid for the Kurds in Syria because they are in a very critical situation. What's more, while talking about an opening for the Kurds in Turkey, Erdogan is bombing the Kurds in Syria every day, every day without exception. He has never stopped, he has never paused and his language is very aggressive. Arrests and political repression are also continuing in Turkey. So we are hoping and waiting.

	 

	
		"Parliament is the chosen place of collective politics in democratic politics. It is therefore a good thing that the parliament plays a role in building this solution, so that there is not only an agreement between Erdoğan and Mr Öcalan, but also a political solution between the people."


	 

	* The first political contact took place on 28 December. Abdullah Öcalan's first messages were shared during the 3-hour meeting. In these messages, an attitude in favour of a solution and to contribute to the future of peace in the region was expressed. The parliament was pointed out as the place to contribute to the solution. How did you see these messages?

	 

	This is, of course, a very important exit. It is important that the parliament is chosen as the place to embark on this path of peace because, as I said before, it is clear that this is a political agreement, a political solution, and if we do it in parliament, it will be legitimised as a political solution because parliament is the chosen place of collective politics in democratic politics. So I think it is a good thing that the parliament plays a role in building this solution so that it is not only an agreement between Mr Erdogan and Mr Ocalan, but also a political solution within the current Turkish state and a political solution between the people. This is a good thing because it will also mean that the state recognises the Kurdish people, recognises their right to be there, to stand there and to speak as Kurdish people. This is a really important, wonderful step. You know, let's remember that Bahçeli has always said that even mentioning Mr Öcalan's name in public should be punished. This is a good way.  But we need to clarify the other side whose position they are asking, because without this, we cannot make a solid analysis of the discussions. We are not at a point where we can say whether the process is good or bad. But so far a good image is being given, but of course he says ‘We will release them’. They say, ‘We will stop Öcalan's isolation, if the PKK liquidates itself’, but again, this will not be their only demand, I think so.  

	 

	
		"We have to wait a little longer to see if there is a real attempt by the Turkish government. I think that Mr Ocalan and the Kurdish people will play a fundamental role in unifying and pacifying not only Turkey but the whole region."


	 

	*In addition, although the Turkish government calls it a solution, the PKK and DEM Party say that this has not yet evolved into a concrete solution because the isolation continues, conditions have not been created, and the Kurdish people are historically cautious.  What do you think about this issue? 

	 

	 It is difficult to say, but I think the Kurdish people should walk on every path to peace. Obviously, we have to clarify what the terms of the agreement will be because I personally, and a lot of people who lack information, am sure that every path to a political solution will be walked and no chance will be left unfinished. I am sure that this is the way it is going to be. But it is also true that it feels strange because on the one hand there is an opening that they are talking about and on the other hand they are still doing things in the same way. It is only this dimension of discourse that has changed. Everything else, all the isolation policies against the Kurdish people continue, not only against Mr Öcalan, but also against other political prisoners and politicians and all the other people involved in these issues. I think we have to wait a little bit longer to see how this will develop, to see if there is a real attempt by the Turkish government.

	 

	I think that Mr Öcalan and the Kurdish people will play a fundamental role in uniting and pacifying not only Turkey but the whole region. We have to analyse well whether this initiative is true or not. We don't know whether this opening is a real political opening or a political move, or whether they are trying to prepare people for something and give the impression that ‘look, we are demanding peace from the other side but they are not talking to us’. We will see.

	 

	*Finally, how should this process be approached?

	 

	In the end, the discussions and negotiations are big steps for both the Kurds and the Turkish state. The Turkish government has changed the attitude it has adopted until now. We don't know whether this is propaganda or a voluntary step towards a real solution to the problem. We were happy when the first meeting with Mr Öcalan's nephew took place, but we do not know when the second visit with the MPs will take place. When this happens, then we will start to believe that a real path for a solution has been taken, but it is too early to say that yet. But I hope that this will be a real step towards peace and that the isolation of Mr Öcalan will be lifted. I hope that we can all see Mr Öcalan in public, and it will be great news that the years of isolation will end in 2025. This will be the best news we will ever hear. I hope this path will continue.